VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[erogedegen]

thank you for making this amazing game. hana and mina both deserve the entire fucking world. i love them both

 

[se20299]

This whole argument is stupid. Stop feeding the trolls. The development of Pale Carnations is going at a rapid pace, especially for such a high quality VN with such a high production value. Comopre PC to the most popular AVN currently in development, Being a DIK, which is on track to have a release schedule of 1 episode in 1 and a 1/2 years, whose development will probably finish sometimes next decade at this pace. Sure, PC is a lot lighter on mechanics and variables, but my point still stands. Most games of this scale take 8 months minimum to update if you want any significant content.

 

[Bill Temple]

This whole argument is stupid. Stop feeding the trolls. The development of Pale Carnations is going at a rapid pace, especially for such a high quality VN with such a high production value. Comopre PC to the most popular AVN currently in development, Being a DIK, which is on track to have a release schedule of 1 episode in 1 and a 1/2 years, whose development will probably finish sometimes next decade at this pace. Sure, PC is a lot lighter on mechanics and variables, but my point still stands. Most games of this scale take 8 months minimum to update if you want any significant content.

Agree. I didn't see the troll's post until the replies. I already had him on the ignore list for reasons I can't remember but were probably similar bad behavior. I'll point out that I think it's curious that he insists he's a paying supporter, but chooses to voice his concerns not on Patreon, not on Discord, but on a pirate site. Pirates are fine, but shiver me timbers I can't stand bitchy selfish pirates.

 

[1000Spiders]

This whole argument is stupid. Stop feeding the trolls. The development of Pale Carnations is going at a rapid pace, especially for such a high quality VN with such a high production value. Comopre PC to the most popular AVN currently in development, Being a DIK, which is on track to have a release schedule of 1 episode in 1 and a 1/2 years, whose development will probably finish sometimes next decade at this pace. Sure, PC is a lot lighter on mechanics and variables, but my point still stands. Most games of this scale take 8 months minimum to update if you want any significant content.

I only regret that I have but one like to give for this post.

 

[Ness99]

I really hope that the dev has planned a way soon where Hana would be exposed during the shows, doing sexual things, I don't want her to just be a judge, I want her to participate. Besides, is a show planned for the upcoming update?

 

[Biscardone]

An update we release in one month, apart from the question narrative coherence, would be roughly 1/4th the size of what we release in 4 months. Actually, releasing four updates over 4 months would probably have less content, due to stop-and-go aspect and releasing builds coming with its own administrative time sinks. At the very least, it would inform the pacing of events in a way that would be a detriment to the project's quality.

All trolling aside, that's something that needs to be stressed. I'm a consultant in the IT industry, and I can't even remember the number of times that the customer management asked me to do what I could to "reduce the development time". Be it adding other people to a project with tasks that require a hefty warm-up and can't be handled in parallel (a.k.a. "nine women can give birth to a child in a month"), or asking people to perform multiple tasks at one, as if stopping-and-going (a.k.a. "context switch") didn't have any overhead or quality implication.

That's something that is often seen in the Patreon-sphere: to decrease the development times, authors are often asked to "add more developers / artists" and "split releases in multiple chunks". And the answer should almost always be a resounding no. There is no magical formula, or modern development technique, to speed up a game release - at least, no formula that doesn't imply a quality impact, in any case. Developers, or game authors in this case, have to find a process that is fine to them. It may not be the best process in absolute terms, but hell, we're humans and we deserve to strike a good balance between "productivity" and "self-satisfaction" (God, how I hate marketing terms).

Oh, and laziness accusations, in this specific and many other cases, can go straight in the bin. If someone thinks that this is "milking", well, they don't know much of how real life works, and I'm surprised they can function in real life at all.

 

[Takkatakka]

I really hope that the dev has planned a way soon where Hana would be exposed during the shows, doing sexual things, I don't want her to just be a judge, I want her to participate. Besides, is a show planned for the upcoming update?

That wouldn't fit either Hana nor her place at the club now (and I seriously doubt August would let that happen in the first place).

The upcoming patch will be set at a Wednesday, so the next show will likely be like 1-2 patches out, depending on how much will be happening the remainder of the in-game week.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

That wouldn't fit either Hana nor her place at the club now (and I seriously doubt August would let that happen in the first place).

The upcoming patch will be set at a Wednesday, so the next show will likely be like 1-2 patches out, depending on how much will be happening the remainder of the in-game week.

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[Takkatakka]

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I mean...sure, TD could be really evil and somehow drag in Hana and possibly even Mina as well. Then again the club has some level of at least free will. Like the women aren't technically raped for example. They are there on their own free will and they can (at least as far as I can see) also leave if they want. Could this change if shit really hits the fan? Sure.

But right now there is no tag that would indicate anything along those lines and Hana herself surely wouldn't join the show as a more direct participant. She seems to be disgusted enough just by having to be there.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I mean...sure, TD could be really evil and somehow drag in Hana and possibly even Mina as well. Then again the club has some level of at least free will. Like the women aren't technically raped for example. They are there on their own free will and they can (at least as far as I can see) also leave if they want. Could this change if shit really hits the fan? Sure.

But right now there is no tag that would indicate anything along those lines and Hana herself surely wouldn't join the show as a more direct participant. She seems to be disgusted enough just by having to be there.

You sound kinda similar to Warren describing how Hana is untouchable during his conversation with Kathleen where that was her response...

 

[Takkatakka]

You sound kinda similar to Warren describing how Hana is untouchable during his conversation with Kathleen where that was her response...

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

She is refuting Warren's claim that their hands are tied in regard to a path of physical coercion (spanking )

 

[Takkatakka]

She is refuting Warren's claim that their hands are tied in regard to a path of physical coercion (spanking )

I have to play that scene again, but that was probably after the pool incident? I think the situation has changed now due to Hana essentially being Warren's boss.

 

[se20299]

It seems like Kat's plan is to make Hana more receptive to being the "madam" of the club, basically continuing Kat's grotesque spectacles instead of the club reverting to being a glorifoed whorehouse. She's definitely grooming both Edwin and Hana to take the place of August and Chuck, and without August's demand for profit, Kat will be able to fully transform the club into something else entierely, unrestricted by profit and business. Chuck is just there for a good time, and I doubt he'd be interested in just watching, like Kat seems to prefer it.

 

[lkjhgfdfghjkl]

I have to play that scene again, but that was probably after the pool incident? I think the situation has changed now due to Hana essentially being Warren's boss.

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

 

[Takkatakka]

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

Oh, it has changed. Hana now owns more of the club than Kat.

 

[agrdtcwa]

Yea after the pool scene. The implication is that Edwin will be vital in whatever her plan is there. Doubt the situation has changed too much, we might just be at the next step.

In terms of hana's corruption I can see 2 things happening:

- Edwin corrupts her and makes her forget about her morals with the help of his magic cock
- Hana loses her morals with the help of Abel's magic drugs.

I dont see Hana being treated as a common whore just because she is in a position of power but I see her either doing Kat's job or Edwin manipulating her by taking advantage of whatever feelings she has for him.

 

[Blizzard99]

Has there been anything official mentioning the future of Marlow in the story? As in, is she gonna make a reappearance in the current timeline or will it be restricted to flashbacks about her.

 

[YuNobi1]

I think her plan seems to be to break Hana morally as in having her coming up with and leading shows (basically doing Kat's job), not taking the part of a Carnation in those shows.

Kat believes that Hana will effectively replace August, and regardless of what happens in the next few weeks/months, change will come. I can't figure out Kat's ultimate goal, whether to fully unfetter herself with the new management, or transforming the club into her ultimate utopian vision and then retiring, having established her legacy. Oh she'll no doubt return as an exhibition spectator if she does retire.

She does seem to be wanting Hana to replace her, but again, I don't know if that's the goal, especially since she seems more committed to making Edwin her heir. If Kat is planning to stay for a long time, then Kat's logical strategy, knowing Hana's initial attitude toward the club, would be to make Hana invested not just financially, but in heart and mind. If Hana has had personal "investment" in the amenities, and thus has personal guilt/responsibility, not just associative, then she will be disarmed in viewing "those evil people who need to be taken down," when she is now one of those "evil people" by both shareholder, and participant, making it a lot harder for Hana to go through with "burning the house down". I obviously don't know TD's intentions, nor the depth of Kat's master planning, but it does seem like one of Kat's strategies in transforming Hana is giving her a sob story to root for, thus showing/convincing her that the Club is indeed helpful to women, not solely degrading. Thus she gets Rose, who strikes at Hana's sympathetic heartstrings, and Edwin, counting on him favoring Rose due to his background, which leads him to helping her specifically, thus Kat decides before Rose and Edwin are at the Club that Rose will win the competition.

Naturally the problem is this might take away too much player agency, so I don’t know if TD has planned this. The counter-argument could be made that the player agency comes in with Edwin choosing whether or not to help Rose, thus rejecting her muddles Kat's plans, forcing her to adjust. It can also be suggested that Kat also choose Felicia, being a sex-fanatic peer to Hana competing for a good time, and Veronica, the image of a strong independent woman crossing the finish line standing tall and "undegraded" thus challenging Hana's paradigm. Yes, Veronica had to qualify, but that was so clearly one-sided in focusing on endurance tests, so Lucy never had a shot.

 

[se20299]

Kat believes that Hana will effectively replace August, and regardless of what happens in the next few weeks/months, change will come. I can't figure out Kat's ultimate goal, whether to fully unfetter herself with the new management, or transforming the club into her ultimate utopian vision and then retiring, having established her legacy. Oh she'll no doubt return as an exhibition spectator if she does retire.

She does seem to be wanting Hana to replace her, but again, I don't know if that's the goal, especially since she seems more committed to making Edwin her heir. If Kat is planning to stay for a long time, then Kat's logical strategy, knowing Hana's initial attitude toward the club, would be to make Hana invested not just financially, but in heart and mind. If Hana has had personal "investment" in the amenities, and thus has personal guilt/responsibility, not just associative, then she will be disarmed in viewing "those evil people who need to be taken down," when she is now one of those "evil people" by both shareholder, and participant, making it a lot harder for Hana to go through with "burning the house down". I obviously don't know TD's intentions, nor the depth of Kat's master planning, but it does seem like one of Kat's strategies in transforming Hana is giving her a sob story to root for, thus showing/convincing her that the Club is indeed helpful to women, not solely degrading. Thus she gets Rose, who strikes at Hana's sympathetic heartstrings, and Edwin, counting on him favoring Rose due to his background, which leads him to helping her specifically, thus Kat decides before Rose and Edwin are at the Club that Rose will win the competition.

Naturally the problem is this might take away too much player agency, so I don’t know if TD has planned this. The counter-argument could be made that the player agency comes in with Edwin choosing whether or not to help Rose, thus rejecting her muddles Kat's plans, forcing her to adjust. It can also be suggested that Kat also choose Felicia, being a sex-fanatic peer to Hana competing for a good time, and Veronica, the image of a strong independent woman crossing the finish line standing tall and "undegraded" thus challenging Hana's paradigm. Yes, Veronica had to qualify, but that was so clearly one-sided in focusing on endurance tests, so Lucy never had a shot.

I don't think Kat's master plan revolves around Edwin's mommy issues. One clould argue that having Edwin around may make Hana more comfortable, but Edwin might not even be friends with Hana, or even worse for Kat, a good Edwin may steer Hana away from the club. Sure, she's using Rose to pull the heartstring on Edwin's Vicky shaped heart, and Kat personally calling Victoria gets to Edwin no matter his alignment. But I still think that's a flimsy foundation of a business takeover. I think Edwin's been a curiosity for Kat, as his many weaknesses, most of which revolve around our favorite pornstar, appeal to Kat's predatory instict. And while she can't overtly fuck with him because of Chuck, she still enjoys poking at his wounds using Rose as the weapon, knowimg damn well he's gonna fall for the bait. Since Victoria never got famous by pornstar standards, and returned to a low key life without much fuss, my theory is that August informed Kat about Edwin's mom, as he's probably deeply acquainted with Ms Turner. It just makes no sense to me that kad did such a thorough background check for a helping hand, especially since Chuck personally vouched for him. But I digress.

I think Hana is the key to the kingdom Kat has been waiting for. Like you said, she's counting on sunk cost fallacy to keep Hana chained to the club, and she's counting on Hana's consience to phase out the prostitution aspect of the club once August retires, as Kat's already selling the fantasy of "helping" women in need by holding her depraved competitions, and allowing Hana to put an end to the prostitution aspect will go a long way to make her more tolerant of Kat's activities. So while Edwin's just a plaything she can poke, prod and corrupt, Hana's the only way Kat can take complete control of the club and run it her way without anyone interfering, and she's already working to mold Hana into an unwitting pawn.

Tl;dr: Hana's the one with the keys to the kingdom, and Edwin's too big of a variable to reliably plan around.