VN Ren'Py Pale Carnations [Ch. 4 Up 4 Public] [Mutt & Jeff]

[se20299]

First, my point was more about her private life. Second, what some members here overlook is the very Samurai-Daimyo like relationship of Abel and Sophia. She will inherit his medical empire once he retires and before this happens she is his loyal agent. So yes, she will sleep with others if Abel orders her to or if Sophia decides herself as with the screenshot from above, where she selftested the drug.
But what some overlook is that Abel and Sophia might be morally ambigious, but it is very clear from what we see in PC that Abel is very fond of Sophia and they play their own game. They are in the club soley for their own gain, not like other club members, I am really sure that Abel will order Sophia not more than strictly needed.
As for the chess game and considering the special disdain Abel has for Chuck, Abel is confident enough that Sophia is better at chess for as long as they need until the two make their move. It is pretty clear from what we learned that baring a cheat from Chuck, Sophia is a far better player than Chuck.

Sophia and Edwin would be a great fit, esp. for a morally grey goodish ending.

You're either intentionally obtuse for the sake of it, or you're extremely naive.

Sophia is nowhere near morally good, she's neutral at best. Sophia and Abel have absolutely no qualms about working with the Club, and that immidiately sets off red flags. Sophia has absolutely no agency of her own, as everything she does is orchestrsted by Abel, and he's clearly scouted Edwin as a potential ally or threat, so he told Sophia to lay on the charm on Edwin so he can indirectly control him. All of that "chemistry" Edwin has with Sophia is just her telling him what he wants to hear, so he becomes more mallable to Abel. The fact that she's willing to get gangbanged under Abel's orders tells you everything you need to know about her character. Even if her and Edwin enter into a "relationship", her first priority will always be Abel and their shady work.

No potential ending with Sophia will be good for Edwin, as Sophia is a cold hearted snake that has way more in common with Kat rather than Hana or Mina. Also, Sophie's "private life" only extends as far as Abel's willing to grant her. If she wants to gain anything, she has to be Abel's bitch until his death. Her agency is purely an illusion for Edwin. If Abel told her to kill Edwin, he would be found dead the next day.

On the other hand, she'd be the perfect match for an evil Edwin. He's just as monstrous as her and Abel, and I suspect he'd enjoy Abel's line of "work".

 

[Ottoeight]

You're either intentionally obtuse for the sake of it, or you're extremely naive.

Sophia is nowhere near morally good, she's neutral at best. Sophia and Abel have absolutely no qualms about working with the Club, and that immidiately sets off red flags. Sophia has absolutely no agency of her own, as everything she does is orchestrsted by Abel, and he's clearly scouted Edwin as a potential ally or threat, so he told Sophia to lay on the charm on Edwin so he can indirectly control him. All of that "chemistry" Edwin has with Sophia is just her telling him what he wants to hear, so he becomes more mallable to Abel. The fact that she's willing to get gangbanged under Abel's orders tells you everything you need to know about her character. Even if her and Edwin enter into a "relationship", her first priority will always be Abel and their shady work.

No potential ending with Sophia will be good for Edwin, as Sophia is a cold hearted snake that has way more in common with Kat rather than Hana or Mina. Also, Sophie's "private life" only extends as far as Abel's willing to grant her. If she wants to gain anything, she has to be Abel's bitch until his death. Her agency is purely an illusion for Edwin. If Abel told her to kill Edwin, he would be found dead the next day.

On the other hand, she'd be the perfect match for an evil Edwin. He's just as monstrous as her and Abel, and I suspect he'd enjoy Abel's line of "work".

I'm just wondering why some people are imagining Sophia endings. As I've already wrote, some people are oblivious of the fact that there aren't any Sophia game points whatsoever.

MC has had sex more than once with Dalia, Lucy and Harper by now, for instance. Why aren't they imagining a Harper ending, for instance?

 

[Maviarab]

I'm just wondering why some people are imagining Sophia endings. As I've already wrote, some people are oblivious of the fact that there aren't any Sophia game points whatsoever.

MC has had sex more than once with Dalia, Lucy and Harper by now, for instance. Why aren't they imagining a Harper ending, for instance?

I'd definitely take a Dalia ending. Jus sayin' hehe....

 

[Turret]

They don't have anything in common at all. And I think you're simply oblivious of the fact that she simply is a side character without scoring any game point whatsoever. The bouncers and August score game points, she doesn't. Just saying.

I guess you might feel the urge to write a Pale Carnation fan-fiction about her, methinks.

Wellmade characters have a tendency to develop into directions you did not intended them to go when you concepted them first. Could also happen here.

You're either intentionally obtuse for the sake of it, or you're extremely naive.

Sophia is nowhere near morally good, she's neutral at best. Sophia and Abel have absolutely no qualms about working with the Club, and that immidiately sets off red flags. Sophia has absolutely no agency of her own, as everything she does is orchestrsted by Abel, and he's clearly scouted Edwin as a potential ally or threat, so he told Sophia to lay on the charm on Edwin so he can indirectly control him. All of that "chemistry" Edwin has with Sophia is just her telling him what he wants to hear, so he becomes more mallable to Abel. The fact that she's willing to get gangbanged under Abel's orders tells you everything you need to know about her character. Even if her and Edwin enter into a "relationship", her first priority will always be Abel and their shady work.

No potential ending with Sophia will be good for Edwin, as Sophia is a cold hearted snake that has way more in common with Kat rather than Hana or Mina. Also, Sophie's "private life" only extends as far as Abel's willing to grant her. If she wants to gain anything, she has to be Abel's bitch until his death. Her agency is purely an illusion for Edwin. If Abel told her to kill Edwin, he would be found dead the next day.

On the other hand, she'd be the perfect match for an evil Edwin. He's just as monstrous as her and Abel, and I suspect he'd enjoy Abel's line of "work".

You surely did not read some of my earlier posts on this topic, right?
Because then you would know that I very much acknowledge how Sophia Lundgren is as a person. To paraphrase myself:
Opening the door to her heart is a very different trail than those of Mina, Hana, Felicia, Rosi or Veronika, even Kat´s.
Sophia is a genius-level nerd, completely amoral, eccentric, cold, calculating and if what we know about her is mostly true, then Sophia also comes in very handy when the lead starts to fly.
You and her can click to a certain extend and you can end the current version of PC on good terms with her, if played for that. The seed is sown. Pursuing her and gaining entrance to her heart would be a very interesting path to take!
Not only for the main story but also on the "sidelines". Just imagine a repeat of Viktoria´s surprise visit not with Hana opening the door, but Sophia having stayed the night.
It would be a major shock for the MC´s mom that you are going for a woman like Sophia, since the good Doc IS different with a major D.

You are quite mistaken when you lump her together with Kat. Kat is into PC to sate her sadism, getting off on it. For Sophia sadism is not even on the radar anywhere, feelings have nothing to do with her being in the club.
And another hint that Sophia is not quite as bad as other important characters in the game, she states that Chuck is scary. When a person as amoral and calculating as Dr. Lundgren tells you about another person that he/she is scary, you should damn well better listen. That is actually a real life tipp also.

My personal theory for Sophia and Abel is that on the "goodish" Edwin paths they are either in deep cover for an acronym governmental organisation or on their own "crusade", while on the "badish" Edwin paths they are their own brand of a... like Edwin´s bosses.

You in addition overestimate how likely it is Sophia being the "honey trap" for Edwin. She is great at many things, but charm will never be one of it. She even unnerves Kat! A person like her is not honey trap material for most persons.
Sophia and Edwin in the bar area are two cardcarrying members of the nerd squad meeting each other.

 

[se20299]

Wellmade characters have a tendency to develop into directions you did not intended them to go when you concepted them first. Could also happen here.
You surely did not read some of my earlier posts on this topic, right?
Because then you would know that I very much acknowledge how Sophia Lundgren is as a person. To paraphrase myself:
Opening the door to her heart is a very different trail than those of Mina, Hana, Felicia, Rosi or Veronika, even Kat´s.
Sophia is a genius-level nerd, completely amoral, eccentric, cold, calculating and if what we know about her is mostly true, then Sophia also comes in very handy when the lead starts to fly.
You and her can click to a certain extend and you can end the current version of PC on good terms with her, if played for that. The seed is sown. Pursuing her and gaining entrance to her heart would be a very interesting path to take!
Not only for the main story but also on the "sidelines". Just imagine a repeat of Viktoria´s surprise visit not with Hana opening the door, but Sophia having stayed the night.
It would be a major shock for the MC´s mom that you are going for a woman like Sophia, since the good Doc IS different with a major D.

You are quite mistaken when you lump her together with Kat. Kat is into PC to sate her sadism, getting off on it. For Sophia sadism is not even on the radar anywhere, feelings have nothing to do with her being in the club.
And another hint that Sophia is not quite as bad as other important characters in the game, she states that Chuck is scary. When a person as amoral and calculating as Dr. Lundgren tells you about another person that he/she is scary, you should damn well better listen. That is actually a real life tipp also.

My personal theory for Sophia and Abel is that on the "goodish" Edwin paths they are either in deep cover for an acronym governmental organisation or on their own "crusade", while on the "badish" Edwin paths they are their own brand of a... like Edwin´s bosses.

You in addition overestimate how likely it is Sophia being the "honey trap" for Edwin. She is great at many things, but charm will never be one of it. She even unnerves Kat! A person like her is not honey trap material for most persons.
Sophia and Edwin in the bar area are two cardcarrying members of the nerd squad meeting each other.

A very good write up. The problem is, the key to Sophia's cold, cold heart is either dancing to Abel's tune or taking Abel out outright. There's no other way. Even if she does grow to love him somehow, a frigid woman like Sophia would have no qualms harming Edwin if Abel wills it. The juice is just not worth the squeeze when it comes to her.

Also, Chuck is no less scary than Sophia herself. While Chuck does fucked uo shit for his own pleasure, Ms Lundgren does fucked up things because Abel wills it. Even if she is a CIA punch clock villain like you propose, it takes a cold, sociopathic person to do that kinda work. If she IS a glowie, than Edwin is also in trouble as he's also complicit in the Club's crimes. The only way I see an Edwin and Sophia good ending is if Edwin's also evil, and Sophia is NOT a federal agent.

Also, given Vicky's experience in the s̶h̶o̶w̶ hoe business, she will probably sniff out that something's off with miss Lundgren, and will probably become even more suspicious of Edwin boy's activities.

Again, thanks again for the great write up. This is one of the few games on here where you can discuss the plot this extensively.

 

[dolfe67]

My personal theory for Sophia and Abel is that on the "goodish" Edwin paths they are either in deep cover for an acronym governmental organisation or on their own "crusade", while on the "badish" Edwin paths they are their own brand of a... like Edwin´s bosses.

That would be a terrible decision to change their background depending on your decisions

 

[Joshy92]

I really like the romance in this
the writing is definitely one of it's strongest points imo

 

[Ottoeight]

My personal theory for Sophia and Abel is that on the "goodish" Edwin paths they are either in deep cover for an acronym governmental organisation or on their own "crusade", while on the "badish" Edwin paths they are their own brand of a... like Edwin´s bosses.

Well, my personal theory for MC is that he is a violet space alien lizard who came to earth in search for sex slaves. How about it.

But... if you wish, I'll stick with the fact that the story tells he is a 21 years old bachelor of science who's applying for a medical school.

In a similar way, I think I'll stick with the fact that the story tells that Abel van Doren is Waller Scientific's CEO and Sophia is Waller's most talented chemist.

 

[Amariithynar]

After playing through the game, I gotta wonder if the Sophia-simps have tried being a kind and dominant personality, and gotten enough points to properly get rewards, especially to see the clips of Sophia and Abel working with Kat where the MC isn't around at all, and all the talk of experimentation (including the poor girl they drugged up and left strapped down and wanting as an experiment). There's also a moment early on where Frank speaks about working with Abel to smuggle drugs past a closed border, and remarks how it was strange that they actually went to the clinics instead of the black market; it really seems to be intimating that they're using the club as a test base, just as they did previously.

 

[Silegy]

I'm just wondering why some people are imagining Sophia endings. As I've already wrote, some people are oblivious of the fact that there aren't any Sophia game points whatsoever.

MC has had sex more than once with Dalia, Lucy and Harper by now, for instance. Why aren't they imagining a Harper ending, for instance?

I'm imagining a Lucy ending if that helps.
EDIT: Imagining, not wanting or expecting.

 

[Turret]

Again, thanks again for the great write up. This is one of the few games on here where you can discuss the plot this extensively.

Absolutely!

In a similar way, I think I'll stick with the fact that the story tells that Abel van Doren is Waller Scientific's CEO and Sophia is Waller's most talented chemist.

Also, Chuck is no less scary than Sophia herself. While Chuck does fucked uo shit for his own pleasure, Ms Lundgren does fucked up things because Abel wills it. Even if she is a CIA punch clock villain like you propose, it takes a cold, sociopathic person to do that kinda work. If she IS a glowie, than Edwin is also in trouble as he's also complicit in the Club's crimes. The only way I see an Edwin and Sophia good ending is if Edwin's also evil, and Sophia is NOT a federal agent.

Well, Abel and Sophia being who they are as explained by the story so far does not hinder them having more agendas than just hopping around the PC club for experimenting.
There are several reasons why I speculate that they could be in deep cover for an acronym organisation or personal crusade/vendetta, since the club is involved in various shady/criminal operations.

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[Deleted member 6035931]

I'm just wondering why some people are imagining Sophia endings. As I've already wrote, some people are oblivious of the fact that there aren't any Sophia game points whatsoever.

MC has had sex more than once with Dalia, Lucy and Harper by now, for instance. Why aren't they imagining a Harper ending, for instance?

Never mind the endings.

But still imagine a spinoff with Chuck or Ian as the protagonist.

 

[Ottoeight]

Never mind the endings.

But still imagine a Chuck-MC or Ian-MC spinoff.

Are you looking forward for a gay themed game?

 

[Deleted member 6035931]

Are you looking forward for a gay themed game?

?

Chuck or Ian being the MC. Not Chuck x MC!

Wanna see Chuck's hedonistic life.

 

[Ottoeight]

?

Chuck or Ian being the MC. Not Chuck x MC!

Wanna see Chuck's hedonistic life.

You're making me think of the Animaniacs' Good Idea/Bad Idea cartoon.

Good Idea: MC's aftermath adventures sequel
Bad Idea: Uncle Chuck's exploitation adventures spin-off

 

[YuNobi1]

A Sequel game with Edwin now running the club or in Kathleen's role sounds amazing. There's a bit of setup for it already, as Kathleen is very much guiding him into a second version of her, not just with the sadism, but with handling internal conflicts, drama, difusing situations (e.g. going to Hana, distracting club members) and managing the house girls. The devs are also laying the groundwork with Dahlia and Harper putting their trust in Edwin, even turning to him for help.

 

[Deleted member 6035931]

A Sequel game with Edwin now running the club or in Kathleen's role sounds amazing. There's a bit of setup for it already, as Kathleen is very much guiding him into a second version of her, not just with the sadism, but with handling internal conflicts, drama, difusing situations (e.g. going to Hana, distracting club members) and managing the house girls. The devs are also laying the groundwork with Dahlia and Harper putting their trust in Edwin, even turning to him for help.

That be fun too. But only if he can overcome the whole "empower whamen" stuff going on in his head. If he becomes a second Kathleen or Chuck I'd wanna see that sequel.

 

[Ottoeight]

Let them finish this one, first. We still have a long road ahead.

 

[se20299]

Some ideas for DLC or bonus content after completion:

*An actual lenghty epilogues/after stories showcasing the consequences of the ending. A simple slideshow epilogue would do this game a disservice.

*Side stories exploring the carnation's past, maybe even stories for characters like Ian, August or even Vicky.

*I'd like to see a full lenght Vicky video tape. I know she's not relevant to the story, but a "lost" bonus tape of Victoria as a bonus side story would be really hot. Hell, a prequel side story featuring Vicky's struggles would be awesome.

*I know this is nitpicky, but the prologue and the present day style look like two different games. Maybe after the story is complete, the dev can redo the prologue and the early parts of the game to look more like the current graphics.

*Also, pls add hidden Ian boipussy route

 

[GIL3D]

*I know this is nitpicky, but the prologue and the present day style look like two different games. Maybe after the story is complete, the dev can redo the prologue and the early parts of the game to look more like the current graphics.

While some of the early work still holds up to some extent, some scenes served as unfortunate trials for mistakes I later learned from and deeply regret. Plus, several game-changing mods have been released in the last year and a half that I really wish I had when we started. All that to say, God I wish I could go back and redo at least the first two chapters of the game, but the story must move forward and TD keeps me busy enough so... that's gonna have to wait.