Shawnchapp

Engaged Member
Modder
Feb 13, 2018
2,004
5,601
I agree but that's more or less the case in a huge part of the world. Desktop PCs, especially decent ones aren't all that widespread but everyone even in 3rd world countries does have a mobile phone. It's the reason that mobile gaming is so profitable. Well that and 50% of the population are idiots.
oh i understand that but if your phone is more "powwerful" then your desktop you;'re better off just using that in the first place Lol (for this case anyways) like i still see people with 8 gigs of ram and windows 7... like come on even lots of phone have 16 gigs of ram Lol and aren't running a 15 year old outdated OS and these are the same people that cry "game sucks can't run not optimised" failing to realize the issue isn't the game its their dam potato!
 

Randomguy3478

Member
Jan 14, 2024
274
741
oh i understand that but if your phone is more "powwerful" then your desktop you;'re better off just using that in the first place Lol (for this case anyways) like i still see people with 8 gigs of ram and windows 7... like come on even lots of phone have 16 gigs of ram Lol and aren't running a 15 year old outdated OS and these are the same people that cry "game sucks can't run not optimised" failing to realize the issue isn't the game its their dam potato!
8 gb ram...

1712691841772.png
 
  • Sad
Reactions: True_Degenerate

Zarathos27

Newbie
Apr 9, 2020
21
29
It's not about positions or anything like that. I personally don't care about picking what the two characters are doing in that sense. It's more the "lack" of approaches for me. The liner thing being my biggest pet peeve. I get that you have written a pretty scripted MC, not a bad thing per se, it's just that to me it feels like if it doesn't have to do with Eden's inner turmoil's your options are limited. When it comes to that the player actually having a say in what they will do unlike many others.

Rose's full deal for example. You can make a choice of what you want because it's part of "him", that's cool when it happens but often he/you are making choices for everyone during the lewd scenes. Like with Mia's first scene, everything that happens is 100% linear aside from where you finish, it just feels very railroaded to me. Just a small amount of player agency like many of the other scenes would go a long way I think.

I know that technically that would cause a little more work but then I think of how you as a player can choose an outfit for Mina and that whole scene is written with thee different sets in images. The actual sexual encounters wouldn't even be the same amount of work. If it were just a change in dialogue and flow that is, I'm not asking for whole separate animations or anything like that.

I'm not great at explaining myself but I hope you got some of what I was saying.
I think you're underestimating the amount of work this would involve. Let's use the Mina scene you mention:

Only in Mina's apartment:
- Just leading up to the option to cheat or not (55 images)
- Makeout and phone interruption with brother then continue (27 images)

Give player option here:
- [Canon option] Fondle boobs: (22 images and 12 animations)
- Other option, whatever fits your fancy: Let's just say same amount as fondling (22 images and 12 animations)

Give player another option:
- [Canon option] Cunnilingus (45 images + 9 animations)
- Another option #2 (45 images + 9 animations)

- Boobjob/Blowjob (53 images + 4 animations)
- Ending bath scene (53 images)
- If you turn down Mina (38 images)

Each animation is in 60fps

So just giving 2 divergent options equal: (67 images and 21 anim = 193 total images) and also tasking the writer to make the writing and transition from one thing to another make sense.

Each branch you do on estimate doubles the work for that section considering GIL and TD's effort of detail. Which becomes exponential if you do more branching choices for the player..
 
Last edited:

Zarathos27

Newbie
Apr 9, 2020
21
29
True, but why I mention the devs attention to detail. You have 2 people talk on a couch, plenty of devs use the same 2 images of each character with an open mouth and reuse it to high hell. PC doesn't do that.

Say you're not into boobs and you wanna skip the boob fondling. You can do that too. It saves images, but you need branching dialogue that fits.

Almost no other game does this. Mention some small event that happened way back like pissing on Vero. PC does this and the devs hafta now remember that you aren't a breast fiend just cuz you skipped it to keep the narrative concise.
 
Nov 4, 2023
18
16
Not every day of the in-game calendar is made equal. In theory, the next update is going to be two days, and we're hoping will be done in less time than this update. Time will tell how that bears out, but it is also an inside joke between GIL and I that we'll be finished in 2030 - in a haha, "oh god please no" way. So hey, maybe you're not too far off the mark. :HideThePain:

We do both want to make another game after this, but I look at it this way: if this is, for whatever reason, the one VN I get to work on in my life, no corners shall be cut and the ending will not be rushed. I don't mean that in a perfectionist sort of way, because we make compromises all the time, but because the enjoyment of our day-to-day work is tied to aspects that simply take time. Like yeah, GIL could reuse the same handful of images for every conversation and cut the image count down by a third, but why even play ball at that point? GIL enjoys crafting life-like sequences, and so that's what he does. For us, enjoying the process is just as essential as being satisfied with the end result.

Copium.
I really appreciate your quick response...but it also confirms my biggest fear.
In short: "quality takes time" and yeah, yours is really top notch!

So we'll see us at 2030, when you'd be finished and until then whishing you both the best!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TD1900

Randomguy3478

Member
Jan 14, 2024
274
741
And, as I've learned from my career as a coomer, one man's darkness is another man's quaint vanilla shit, and that will just keep going until you reach the bottom of the barrel of what humans masturbate to. Like what do people even want? Anything nonconsensual is off the table. [...] No one's going to get forced to marry a pig, get their dicked chopped off, or turned into an Asagian meat cube. [...] Context is king, and in my opinion, pointing to a woman getting dunked in water as an example of "darkness" is some surface level shit.
As this is talk about me: I honestly think this is commendable. Especially for someone who is afaik a fan of starless. It's wise not to spread too much darkness regardless if one's own desires may be into it or if others would like to see it. After all, the stuff one puts out there has an effect on people and on oneself.

Not sure if this sounds like sarcasm, it's not.
 

Skeltom

Engaged Member
Oct 9, 2017
2,597
3,124
I think you're underestimating the amount of work this would involve. Let's use the Mina scene you mention:

Only in Mina's apartment:
- Just leading up to the option to cheat or not (55 images)
- Makeout and phone interruption with brother then continue (27 images)

Give player option here:
- [Canon option] Fondle boobs: (22 images and 12 animations)
- Other option, whatever fits your fancy: Let's just say same amount as fondling (22 images and 12 animations)

Give player another option:
- [Canon option] Cunnilingus (45 images + 9 animations)
- Another option #2 (45 images + 9 animations)

- Boobjob/Blowjob (53 images + 4 animations)
- Ending bath scene (53 images)
- If you turn down Mina (38 images)

Each animation is in 60fps

So just giving 2 divergent options equal: (67 images and 21 anim = 193 total images) and also tasking the writer to make the writing and transition from one thing to another make sense.

Each branch you do on estimate doubles the work for that section considering GIL and TD's effort of detail. Which becomes exponential if you do more branching choices for the player..
I already said I understand it would be more work. This is supposed to be a VN with variations. Not a linear KN where every action is already decided for the reader. You say that it would be a large amount of work to give options but even for the Mina rejection as it is now cuts a significant amount of content that they "worked on" in the end. Then you have the last scene with Mina and Falish where you can technically intervene or not but it is back on the rails right after that you have zero say in whether you want to aggressively finger there poopers out of the blue or not. All I'm saying is as soon as they start the player is basically ignored so "Edwin" can be himself. There is nothing inherently wrong with an opinionated MC but I think they have taken it too far in some parts.

You can look at the first night of the competition as an example. That has three(?) different endings with animations with every one. It may be the same animation with a model swap put it is still a lot of extra work because you have a choice of how you want to be treated. It effects the ending but even that one is pretty rigid. I'm not trying to say they don't do a good amount of work but it takes a significantly shorter time to make images and animations in HS compared to something like Daz.

You also have the traits that effect the outcome of several scenes. If someone is making an actual VN then they most likely go into this with the mind set that they will have to make several versions of a scene depending one the choices made. Not really part of the topic but social chameleon is single handedly the most used trait in the game. Every other one is about useless,
 
Last edited:

labmouseblues

Member
Dec 22, 2020
228
981
I'm still catching up on all the updates, but I'll toss my two meta cents in - end of the day, this game is still a commercial product. If Coppola can re-cut his films to be more marketable, I think we can excuse TD and GIL for not emulating A Serbian Film.

Remember kids, only through the elimination of violence can we achieve world peace.
 
  • Hey there
Reactions: TD1900

TD1900

#701
Game Developer
Dec 8, 2017
770
6,927
Then you have the last scene with Mina and Falish where you can technically intervene or not but it is back on the rails right after that you have zero say in whether you want to aggressively finger there poopers out of the blue or not. All I'm saying is as soon as they start the player is basically ignored so "Edwin" can be himself. There is nothing inherently wrong with an opinionated MC but I think they have taken it too far in some parts.
Uh, so what I'm getting from this is, you do want to choose positions? But sort of.

The thing is, not interrupting the girl fun not only skips the fingering, but also makes Edwin less aggressive during the scene. I get that you probably mean you want some granularity between Edwin letting his id take over and sitting in the cuck chair, which I guess... fair enough. I appreciate the feedback. I tend to see the reader as the devil on Edwin's shoulder, rather than a vehicle for the player, which has its ups and downs.
 

Skeltom

Engaged Member
Oct 9, 2017
2,597
3,124
Uh, so what I'm getting from this is, you do want to choose positions? But sort of.

The thing is, not interrupting the girl fun not only skips the fingering, but also makes Edwin less aggressive during the scene. I get that you probably mean you want some granularity between Edwin letting his id take over and sitting in the cuck chair, which I guess... fair enough. I appreciate the feedback. I tend to see the reader as the devil on Edwin's shoulder, rather than a vehicle for the player, which has its ups and downs.
That's fair. All I'm saying is for me personally there is a severe lack of choice in the sexual side of things. Like you say, Edwin's id just takes over and the player on his shoulder just has to sit back and watch what he does. Just feels forced I guess.
 

balboa2151

Member
Jun 10, 2023
192
181
Hey everyone...I just finished the latest update and all I can say is WOW...I have a question? I chose to have relationships with other women even though I promised Hana that I wouldn't when we became a couple...is this going to come back to me and bite MC in the ass? I really don't want to lose Hana but I can't help myself lol. any help would be great thanks
 

Jacowboy

Active Member
Aug 8, 2022
656
810
Hey everyone...I just finished the latest update and all I can say is WOW...I have a question? I chose to have relationships with other women even though I promised Hana that I wouldn't when we became a couple...is this going to come back to me and bite MC in the ass? I really don't want to lose Hana but I can't help myself lol. any help would be great thanks
I mean, you had a choice to be her BF or her fuckbuddy for a reason... so yes, it will probably have consequences.
 

hth2m1

Newbie
May 28, 2018
90
180
Hey everyone...I just finished the latest update and all I can say is WOW...I have a question? I chose to have relationships with other women even though I promised Hana that I wouldn't when we became a couple...is this going to come back to me and bite MC in the ass? I really don't want to lose Hana but I can't help myself lol. any help would be great thanks
Of course it will. Just maintain a second save, or use the cheat mod to manipulate your flags/stats so you can get the best outcomes for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: balboa2151

balboa2151

Member
Jun 10, 2023
192
181
Of course it will. Just maintain a second save, or use the cheat mod to manipulate your flags/stats so you can get the best outcomes for everyone.
Thanks for your help...so...I am using cheat mod to manipulate my points...does that help if Hana catches me with other women? Sorry...I'm just trying to understand the best outcome. Thanks
 
4.90 star(s) 493 Votes